ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

[gendow]

Has anyone been denied the use of the ACG $10 matchplay coupon at the Plaza? Well, on May 31, 2009 at about 5:30 am, I sat down at a super fun 21 blackjack table (I know this game turns out to be a bad play at 6:5 on BJ) intending to play my ACG $10 matchplay which I had pre-cut out of the ACG book. I kept my ACG membership card in my wallet just in case the dealer asked to see it. Anyhow, no other players were sitting at this particular table so I plopped down a $10 bill and the ACG $10 matchplay on the table. The female dealer summoned the pit boss (African American male). The pit boss took my $10 ACG matchplay coupon, crumpled it up, and threw it away in a nearby trash can and stated that the coupon was "no good." I asked the pit boss if I could have my ACG $10 matchplay coupon back but he just walked away shaking his head indicating that I would not be getting back the coupon. I could not figure out why the coupon was "no good," but I figured that the fine print stipulates that management reserves all rights and can change or modify the terms of the coupon at any time so I ended up just leaving and not making much of a fuss about it. Has anyone else experienced this at the Plaza?

[SteveBourieOLD]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

I haven't heard of any problems with that coupon.

I am going to Las Vegas tomorrow for five days.

I will stop by and use the coupon Saturday afternoon to see if there are any problems.

[colbert]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

Steve,
I was out both the Vegas Club and the Plaza this past Saturday and used the MPs without any problem.

[SteveBourieOLD]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

I went to the Plaza on Saturday June 6 around 6pm.

I used the coupon with no problem.

The dealer gave it to the floor person who wrote his okay on the coupon. He then gave it back to the dealer and she returned it to me so I could use it on my bet of $10.

[gendow]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

Thanks Steve Bourie for your concern and attention to the matter in which I had a problem using the $10 matchplay at the Plaza. I have no ill feelings towards the Plaza for rejecting and discarding my $10 matchplay coupon there for I am fully aware that management reserves all rights in regards to using coupon. What matters more to me is that you took my concern to heart and went out of your way to actually test out the coupon for yourself, which means much more to me than the actual $10 matchplay coupon. Thanks.

[ddechenne]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

Good follow up Steve

[dewey089]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

I appreciate that followup also. The most frustrating part of redeeming coupons is when for some reason they can't be redeemed.

The casinos that put coupons into such books as the ACG and their staff should understand that whenever someone with a coupon takes a journey based on the coupon, the advertisement has worked. And whenever that matchplay or other coupon promise is not kept (regardless of the fine print) they are fundamentally getting negative advertising.

The OP is pretty generous.
Had I had that experience, I would have never gone back to that casino.
I stopped playing for a good long while at Ellis Island when BJ Pete started making it a major task to use a matchplay, including violating the rule that the book is not necessary. I never stopped going there with my book and my card and taking a good bit of time to ask permission to use the card, to asking perhaps twice and then to taking the time it takes to take it out of the book without ripping, all on the BJ table. But until last visit I did not add to my visit the kind of VP play that I had always added after the matchplay.
I thought then that the bit of advantage saved by the casino did not offset my new frugal play style let alone the number the change in visitation by folks who read this board and ask "Is Ellis Island worth my time to visit?"

These sort of casinos like Ellis Island or the Plaza get as much bad press as recommendations so they need some lost leader to draw in players. When they frustrate the advertisement they have agreed to, (regardless of fine print) they negate the benefit.

I also recommend that the OP send to the Plaza a complete description of the event as well as a link to this thread. Folks in higher up positions don't always know when their employees are doing what they expect them to do. They appreciate being told, and they often respond with some perk to the writer for the time it took to write. I have had room charges forgiven when I pushed what I thought was injustice. And because of that response from higher ups, my attitude has also changed, and I am again willing to play or stay there at the casinos who played me badly because they owned up to it and made it right.

IN a similar vein, I generally make it a point not to gamble in places that don't allow a solo 50% rate on coupons. I go to Terribles because they do allow that. That is my own personal lobby.

[stungazed]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

I went to the Plaza on Saturday June 6 around 6pm.

I used the coupon with no problem.

The dealer gave it to the floor person who wrote his okay on the coupon. He then gave it back to the dealer and she returned it to me so I could use it on my bet of $10.

Steve,
There are posts on LVA with similar stories of the original poster. Did you happen to talk to any of your contacts at the Plaza about this behavior to rectify the situation or did you just play your coupon? Since not everyone is having this issue I would hope you could speak to your contacts there so we could be assured this isn't going to start happening on a regular basis.

Personally I'm getting sick and tired of casinos that offer coupons and then treat us like criminals when we try to use them. It's pretty simple, offer a coupon, honor the coupon. When casinos make it difficult to use a coupon it's a huge turn off to a player. If it happens enough people won't go to the casinos that offer these coupons and in turn will find no value in the books that offer them and will stop buying them. So not only will the casinos lose out on business, the authors like Steve will lose too.

Case in point as Dewey mentions is Ellis Island. Over the years I've read nothing but negative reviews about "Sweaty Pete" giving people a hard time about using a match play coupon. Because of these reports I have NEVER played there or tried to use a coupon. It's not worth my time to go to a 4th tier property to be treated like a criminal for using a coupon that his BOSSES approved and he for some reason sweats like HE is losing money if a player wins with the coupon. If enough places behave like this coupon books won't sell anymore because people don't want to be treated like crap.

Dewey couldn't have hit it more on the head about the advertising aspect of it. They place a coupon in the book as a form of advertising to draw a customer into the casino. When that person arrives the ad worked. However, when they don't honor the coupon it's like going to the local grocery store and they are out of the featured sale items. Do this enough times and people won't shop there anymore. Then lets not forget to mention with the internet, when a casino acts foolishly on a coupon, they get a ton of negative advertising . I'm actually debating on whether or not I'm even going to go to the Plaza on my trip in 2 weeks because I don't want to be subjected to treatment like mentioned above by some know it all floor person that's in the wrong.

[SteveBourieOLD]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

Steve,
There are posts on LVA with similar stories of the original poster. Did you happen to talk to any of your contacts at the Plaza about this behavior to rectify the situation or did you just play your coupon? Since not everyone is having this issue I would hope you could speak to your contacts there so we could be assured this isn't going to start happening on a regular basis.

Personally I'm getting sick and tired of casinos that offer coupons and then treat us like criminals when we try to use them. It's pretty simple, offer a coupon, honor the coupon. When casinos make it difficult to use a coupon it's a huge turn off to a player. If it happens enough people won't go to the casinos that offer these coupons and in turn will find no value in the books that offer them and will stop buying them. So not only will the casinos lose out on business, the authors like Steve will lose too.

Case in point as Dewey mentions is Ellis Island. Over the years I've read nothing but negative reviews about "Sweaty Pete" giving people a hard time about using a match play coupon. Because of these reports I have NEVER played there or tried to use a coupon. It's not worth my time to go to a 4th tier property to be treated like a criminal for using a coupon that his BOSSES approved and he for some reason sweats like HE is losing money if a player wins with the coupon. If enough places behave like this coupon books won't sell anymore because people don't want to be treated like crap.

Dewey couldn't have hit it more on the head about the advertising aspect of it. They place a coupon in the book as a form of advertising to draw a customer into the casino. When that person arrives the ad worked. However, when they don't honor the coupon it's like going to the local grocery store and they are out of the featured sale items. Do this enough times and people won't shop there anymore. Then lets not forget to mention with the internet, when a casino acts foolishly on a coupon, they get a ton of negative advertising . I'm actually debating on whether or not I'm even going to go to the Plaza on my trip in 2 weeks because I don't want to be subjected to treatment like mentioned above by some know it all floor person that's in the wrong.

Since there was only one person who had a problem I didn't think there was a major hassle with the Plaza accepting the coupons. If a lot of people were complaining then I would have known that there were some major problems.

We usually don't contact the casinos when only one person complains, but in this instance we actually emailed our contact and I heard back from him before I left on my trip.

I never mentioned this because I really didn't want to get into a big discussion, but since you asked, the response we received was "I will check into this, but I have not heard anything about it. There was one gentleman who came in with color copies of the coupon (not very good copies at that) and we refused him based on the fact that he had multiple copies of the coupon. That is the only person I have been informed that we refused."

So why was the coupon refused from that person? I don't know. Did he present a counterfeit coupon? I don't know. Did the person at the casino refuse a good coupon? I don't know. We will never know what happened in this particualr situation. However, we do know that the casino is accepting the coupon, unless they think someone is presenting a color copy of the coupon.

The bigger problem, however, is the fact that coupon abusers and scammers always seem to ruin things for other people.

Unfortunatley, there are always people who try to beat the system by making fake copies. That has happened with me and also with Anthony Curtis at Las Vegas Advisor.

Another problem that ACG has (that LVA doesn't have) is that people can buy multiple copies of the book. Therefore, some people buy lots of books and constantly show up at the same casinos with matchplay coupons. I believe this is what happened at Ellis Island. If a casino feels that these people are abusers and they start to hassle the abusers, then they are basically free to do that.

In the 17 years that I have been doing the ACG there have been very few instances of casinos outright refusing the coupons. The only major hassle we ever had was last year with Station Casinos.

Anyway, you say "Personally I'm getting sick and tired of casinos that offer coupons and then treat us like criminals when we try to use them. It's pretty simple, offer a coupon, honor the coupon."

In response, I just wanted to let you know that the situation is not so cut and dry. If it weren't for the abusers and scammers I don't think there would ever be a problem. There would be peace among mankind and we could all use our coupons without any hassles!

[rokgpsman]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

Looks like the casino could do something simple to limit the coupon abuse, like asking for the player's card for the person presenting the coupon, then making a note in the player's account that the AGC or POV coupon was played. That way they could stop multiple coupon uses, just allow it once per year or whatever. If they did that the legit players wouldn't mind, and the coupon abusers would stop or go elsewhere, which is what everyone wants. They already do this sort of thing on their hotel reservation system, to keep people from reusing room offers/discounts. Main Street Station does this on their 2 for 1 buffet offer that's printed in the Fremont St coupon sheet. To get the buffet voucher you present the coupon to the players club, they check to see if you've already done it this year & won't give another one if you have. Easy & no abuse.

[colbert]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

A couple years ago, I began to question myself on the use of LVA and ACG matchplays. To maximize their expected value, I would participate in "hit-n-run" coupon usage.
Sure, I always made a profit in the course of a year, but is that how I wanted to present myself to the casinos and more importantly, as a representative consumer of LVA and ACG.
Lately, I've been backing off the "one-n-done" usage, instead opting to sit down and play a few hands of BJ in conjuction with the MP.
Bottom line, I began to feel kinda cheap about my money motives.

[dewey089]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

I am still a hit and run guy. I don't have any guilt about exploiting the casinos because I see them as opponents in a friendly game of odds.
I don't think anyone needs to have much sympathy for corporations that must exploit their customers as best as they can in order to make any proifit, using sophisticated mathematical formulas, and depending on human weakness and in some cases stupidity to keep them well ahead in the game.

This is not to say I would cheat them.
Or that I would withhold tips. Chambermaids, dealers, waitress people are simply there to serve me and to provide exploited labor for the corporations. In most cases they are underpaid. Certainly they have very little in benefits or job security. A vacation costs them a good portion of their daily earnings.
If I did feel any guilt about exploiting the casino, I'd simply toss my winnings to those who serve at my pleasure, redistributing the wealth a bit.

Continuing to play after using a matchplay would have to be based on getting entertainment as each wagered dollar decreases the advantage that the matchplay offers until it really becomes a question of whether it is worth the bother to buy and cut and hassle with them at all. If they are a lost leader that suckers us in to betting more than we would, well then the casino wins their bet in offering them. I do think the win it more than they lose simply due to inertia. At least folks play off their winnings.

I have abandoned the negative expectation games for live poker where the casino is simply paid for a service and what might be their slot fish are, if I am skillful enough, my fish.
Matchplays give me just a taste of my old gamlbing choices, BJ and Craps and sometimes I even put them on roulette if the other tables are full.
Back before live poker, I used to use the matchplays as a way to have a fine walk from casino to casino and see the town a bit, have a tiny gamble, and make my bankroll go a bit farther. I did the same thing Wonging the old dynamite sticks or Piggy banks in those slots that had wongable bonuses.

I am the same with food coupons. I am more likely to go to the next buffet that offers me 2 for 1 food than use one coupon and then feel obligated to eat there the whole week. Nor do I feel obligated to play there. I still eat at the Orleans buffet on coupons, but since they abandoned the advantage player game of 10/7 DB, I don't play there much.

However, I am hopeful that others will not follow my lead. The more who out of guilt, or entertainment, or inertia play beyond the use of the coupon, the more coupons will be printed and sold and that all benefits my freedom to hit and run at more places.

As old poster Gherig used to say, those are the folks who pay the light bills.

[shadroch]

Re: ACG $10 Plaza matchplay not honored.

Since there was only one person who had a problem I didn't think there was a major hassle with the Plaza accepting the coupons. If a lot of people were complaining then I would have known that there were some major problems.

We usually don't contact the casinos when only one person complains, but in this instance we actually emailed our contact and I heard back from him before I left on my trip.

I never mentioned this because I really didn't want to get into a big discussion, but since you asked, the response we received was "I will check into this, but I have not heard anything about it. There was one gentleman who came in with color copies of the coupon (not very good copies at that) and we refused him based on the fact that he had multiple copies of the coupon. That is the only person I have been informed that we refused."

So why was the coupon refused from that person? I don't know. Did he present a counterfeit coupon? I don't know. Did the person at the casino refuse a good coupon? I don't know. We will never know what happened in this particualr situation. However, we do know that the casino is accepting the coupon, unless they think someone is presenting a color copy of the coupon.

The bigger problem, however, is the fact that coupon abusers and scammers always seem to ruin things for other people.

Unfortunatley, there are always people who try to beat the system by making fake copies. That has happened with me and also with Anthony Curtis at Las Vegas Advisor.

Another problem that ACG has (that LVA doesn't have) is that people can buy multiple copies of the book. Therefore, some people buy lots of books and constantly show up at the same casinos with matchplay coupons. I believe this is what happened at Ellis Island. If a casino feels that these people are abusers and they start to hassle the abusers, then they are basically free to do that.

In the 17 years that I have been doing the ACG there have been very few instances of casinos outright refusing the coupons. The only major hassle we ever had was last year with Station Casinos.

Anyway, you say "Personally I'm getting sick and tired of casinos that offer coupons and then treat us like criminals when we try to use them. It's pretty simple, offer a coupon, honor the coupon."

In response, I just wanted to let you know that the situation is not so cut and dry. If it weren't for the abusers and scammers I don't think there would ever be a problem. There would be peace among mankind and we could all use our coupons without any hassles!

Steve,
Do you consider it an abuse to buy and use more than one book?
For years, I've bought two. This year I bought four. If you feel this is abusive, please say so and I won't buy multiple copies next year.